Forum Replies Created
That’s the problem right there. We have already discussed this. Obviously you’re not listening.
Why are racers in other classes contacting me and saying you guys have got it wrong? I’m a nobody. I’ve put that nicely, you don’t want to know what they actually said.
We may as well not have a vote or discussion, the racers don’t have a say here the committee decided.
Yeah sure more torque, it’s a shame they forgot this is a limited tyre class and more torque just spins wheels. Especially when small light cars that can’t fit large tyres now will have to add a lot of weight but can’t put a bigger tyre on.
Both options are 400lbs apart.
So much for listening to the racers, go back and read all the discussion, all suggestions were 200 – 300 lbs apart. The weights we are voting on were never suggested or discussed here at any time. I have no objection to the weight being put up as an option to vote on as long as the options that were suggested, discussed and supported by the “racers” in this class are also put up. And it’s too late because people have already voted.
doz08z & Committee suggested SB 3100 BB 3300 viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2227#p15253
bigrev SB 3300 BB 3600 viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2227#p15282
nos598 suggested BB weight be heavier viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2232#p15263
doz08z repeated support for 300 lbs difference
nos598 supported sb3200 bb3500 viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2232#p15266
conrodv111 sb3300 bb3550 factory2900 viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2232#p15286
ouc78 3100sb 3300bb viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2232&start=25#p15422
BADSLE 3200sb 3500bb viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2232&start=25#p15979
Please show me where the weights we are voting on were suggested and discussed.
BTW there should also be an option for weights not to change so that those that do not support the change can have their vote.
You misunderstood me.
My response was to the suggestion that there be 3 different weights. The suggestion was a weight for cars with factory engines, a weight for cars with small block conversions, and a weight for cars with big block conversions.
My response was that if you gave cars with factory engines a lighter weight perhaps it should be restricted to cars only running factory engines with factory heads. Why? How many times have we heard Capri’s came out standard with a SBF, should a Capri with aftermarket heads be lighter than everyone else? What about a stroker in a LX Torana, should it be lighter than everyone else? If it’s running red heads sure, why not. Should a Valiant with exotic heads be allowed to be lighter? No but I don’t have a problem if it’s running factory heads. What I’m saying is I don’t think cars running factory engines should be allowed to be lighter unless they are running factory heads, if they are running factory heads I support the suggestion of a lighter weight.
On that note I have another suggestion, cars that are slower than a certain time (10 or 11 for example) are exempt from minimum weights, if you go quicker you are weighed. Why make already slow cars slower?
True Street, that is the only reason. I didn’t specify a height, just that the measurement should be to the top of the scoop not the opening.
Under the current rules you can run a scoop as large as you want as long as the top of the mouth is no higher than 6″. True Street cars can’t run giant scoops on the street.
This wasn’t my idea, I just remembered it mentioned a while back and thought it was a good idea so I’m mentioning it now for consideration.
BTW I love Mopars and that’s what I wish to race but I currently own more non Mopars than Mopars. I most likely will not build any of my current cars for True Street and I’m currently negotiating some sales but I have 2 Fords, I have a Torana, a Centura and a Dodge. If you think any of my suggestions have been self motivated you couldn’t be more incorrect. None of the cars I own can have offset hangers fitted, the Torana has flares, the Centura can fit a 275 and the Dodge can fit the largest tyre this class allows. I wouldn’t race the Fords. There is no standard height for the scoop on the Dodge or Centura as neither had a scoop fitted to them standard. As far as minimum weights go if I built the Dodge a heavier weight would actually benefit me since the Dodge is heavy. But as I have stated previously I think if minimum weights were so heavy that people had to add weight to all steel cars to be eligible to race I think that might hurt attendance numbers.
Some cars can run narrow springs to run a wider tyre and it is allowed. Why not offset springs for the cars that can’t run narrower springs? If heavier minimum weights come in then tyres will be one of the main things that give certain cars an advantage over others.
Minimum weights set up for factory engined cars, SBC and BBC .
Might want to add “with factory heads”.
Don’t ask don’t tell.
ANDRA don’t allow it, that makes the answer simple. But it’s a rule that is impossible to enforce so having a rule just gives people something else to complain about or use as a protest.
Can you tell me what big block yank or aussie car came out lighter than 3100lb 😆 😆 😆 ….
Where was 3100lbs suggested in this thread for a BB? I thought the lightest weight suggested for a BB was 3300. Finding a BB car under 3300 lbs is easy but I’d prefer to be laughed at a bit more before I post links. I think one of them may have been under 3100 though. 😉
Here are some hint’s, they are US Mopars, they were made in the 60’s, most are too collectable and rare to race in the APSA hence why I said it wont happen. 😆
By the time you add small block chev, Nine inch Turbo 400, and keep it an all steel body it will always add weight….
What car are we talking about now? And why those parts? This is true street, you do not have to have a 9″ it’s just the common choice. I would never have a Turbo 400 and what if you don’t want a SBC? Personally if I was running a SB I wouldn’t have either 9″ or Turbo 400, they are both too heavy and you lose too much power. There are alternatives that are lighter and quicker and strong enough for most street cars but you know that. BTW if the factory housing in my car has been successfully used in light race cars up to 800hp with little more than axle and centre upgrades and is lighter than a 9′ and quicker than a 9″ would you recommend that I waste my money to upgrade?
Think of other factory cars,,,,VT VY VE, AU, BA BF, etc……These cars are all over 3600ib with small block…
Dood what are talking about?????
Should we penalise lighter factory cars and make them add hundreds of pounds to be as heavy as the heaviest sedans? My SS Hatch with a 308 is under 3000lbs, what are we talking about???? BTW I also own a BA Boss 260 and a AU V8 Ghia, you can’t slow the class down enough for a NA BA to be able to compete, they are too heavy and slow.
The committee suggested 3100 sb and 3300bb I think its a fair call but 3200sb and 3500bb sounds even better to me…just my opinion
an Enginieered HJ weighs about 3600…These days only heavy cars can get engineered with BB’s….It works…
I’ve already shown this isn’t true. In NSW and QLD you can get a Mopar 383 B block passed in a car that weighs more than 2872 lbs, to get a Mopar 400 B block passed your car will need to weigh more than 2999 lbs. 383’s come out from the factory in some A bodies and there are plenty of Vals that can be legally registered with them as well. These low deck Mopar big blocks provide decent bang for buck and don’t weigh much more than a small block but they can be easily out powered buy a GM LS or SBF. A factory block 383 starts to be a time bomb above 600 hp and a 400 will fail between 600 and 1000 depending on how lucky you get with the block. There is no such thing as a aftermarket cast iron low deck BB mopar block, they only make them in ally.
Anyway when the committee reconvene they will look at everyones suggestion and give the final recommendation..From what they have siad so far 3100 and 3300 is it…
Fair enough. Those weights are reasonable enough too. I’m also happy enough to accept that I’m just one vote, if the majority want heavy so be it.
@nos598 I’ve been clear about what I think about heavier weight breaks for this class, if we must have them and if we must have different ones then the best suggested are the lightest ones of 3100 SB and 3300 BB, having to carry 200 lbs more than a car that can make more power is not as bad as having to be 3600 as some have suggested. I still think it’s stupid to make all steel street registered cars add weight.
The weight break idea is just an over reaction or incorrect reaction to the complaints of some. If it is because as stated in the other thread cars that do not comply to the current rules occupy 9/10 places in the Top 10 then the solution is simple, enforce the current rules. If it’s because people are upset others are a second quicker than them, why change rules for people who don’t get it? Does being on a list make their life complete? Everyone gets 3 rounds, a second quicker does not guarantee a win, reaction time can make up to half a second and cars don’t run their PB every run so the reality is that 10 second cars can win True Street.
The 2900 lbs minimum weight is fine, it’s fine to say if your car is a V8 and lighter than 2900 lbs it’s not in the spirit of the class, it’s when the minimum weight forces an all steel legally street registered car that is engineered and complies with the law to add weight that I think the rule is stupid. And for what it’s worth there are unmodified factory big block cars that are lighter than any of the weights suggested in this thread. Not that it’s going to happen but it would be funny if the owner of a factory lightweight wanted to race and was told sorry you must add weight to your original factory car.
I agree with George and nos598, we need to clarify the rules on exhaust, fuel and traction control devices now before we run into issue in the very near future. I’m all for exhausts on and no to traction control devices. 8)
I don’t understand why 64Dodge wants so much complexity in engines sizes, we have a working class here were Toranas and VL’s came out with 308ci factory engines only and we currently have the top 4 cars with non factory engines in them all SBC and one with a BBC all without engineers reports except for one HX. We currently have one Ford in the Top Ten and one red Ford just about ready to take the number one spot from QLD. 😀
So the class to me is working , we are getting the most numbers at the events but I think we can do better, if we keep this class going with some fine tuning in the rules to bunch us up I can’t see why we
can’t have 32 cars entered at every event!
😀 Big Rev 😀
Currently Fastest True Street Ford at no.5 in Top Ten
9.73 @ 135.44 with exhaust on
So are you saying all these cars in the Top 10 are not class legal and should not be in the Top 10, you do realise that the current rules say that all non factory engines must have an engineers certificate?
BTW please don’t say that I want complexity in anything, my vote is leave the class as is, don’t change anything except for maybe full exhaust, hinges, street equipment and enforce the rules we have now. If you read my posts you will notice I think True Street is the most competitive class and close to perfect as is. However the writing is on the wall, it is obvious that they are pushing for heavier weight breaks, I’m arguing that the simple heavy weight breaks proposed will wreck this class. The fact is weight breaks are built into the class already if they enforce the engineered rule so the class does not need them, adding extra heavier weight breaks into the rules will only make the class more expensive, give some combos an advantage and worst of all it will drive anyone who is not willing to add the weight to their street car away from the class.
Obviously the rule I have a real problem with is the big block weight as the engine for the car I’m building is technically a big block even though it’s smaller than most small blocks in the class. My problem is I will have to add a lot of weight to my car but cars that can make more power than my engine is capable of no matter how much money is thrown at it will be allowed to be much lighter. I’m wondering why I would be forced by the rules to add so much weight when my state with some of the toughest laws in the country doesn’t require me to be that heavy. If we are going to add these ridiculous heavy weights why call this class True Street, call it heavy expensive Street because the fact is that if you force genuine registered cars to add additional weight to their cars there will be quicker genuine True Street cars not racing in this class, the fact is that by forcing cars to be heavier than the law requires this class cannot possibly represent the quickest True Street cars in the country because your car will be quicker by not being in the class and not having to add BS weight.
Some examples. Do you want Holden based engines to be the same weight as Windsors, LS motors and LA’s? How much power can the Holden make? Can it get close to a SBF? Can any of them go to 500ci like the LA can? OK lets make them all the same 3200 or 3300 as proposed. What have we done? We just made the smaller capacity SB’s heavier and slower but the guy with a money tree can still run 8’s.
How about big blocks? Well the guy with a 383 or even 400 now has to add a lot of weight, before he could have run factory heads or cheap edelbrock/stealth heads (they all have the same flow potential which is less than an LS3 head) and run 10’s maybe even 9’s but now you have gone and slowed him down even though he has less power potential than a LS3 with factory heads. Should he spend more money and get better heads, there is no point since he is already at the limit of the 35+ year old block, his only option to make more power is an aftermarket alloy block because there is no such thing as an aftermarket cast iron B block Mopar, only the taller deck RB’s come in cast iron. So you slowed down the little guy but the guy with the money tree can still build a mega dollar BBF or BBC and even with the heaviest weight suggested run deep into the 8’s.
And that’s my point, simple rules that are not thought out will not stop someone with money running 8’s, they will only make the class more expensive and harder for people like me.
And sure I have used an example of a combo I want to build but it’s clear this applies across the board and I am thinking about the class as a whole. Even ignoring the example of my build and you can see why it would be bad to make all small blocks heavy, the current minimum weight of 2900 lbs has almost no impact because even the lightest all steel SB’s street cars are close to this. But make the weight the same 3200/3300 for all SB’s and now the guy running a 308 must add a lot of weight to his car and make it weight the same as the guy running a larger big dollar engine in a normally heavier car that can also run a larger tyre.
For the guys who still want these simple weight breaks, can you please answer me this. What are you trying to accomplish with these weight breaks? How did you come up with the numbers?
Nick and big rev ,i think you are on the right track with small block weight and big block weight. Key board racers i don’t agree with !!! I am pretty sure that a tall deck can be distinguished from a standard deck height engine , certainly with a Chev it can be and a bbc can be 580 cubes in a standard deck height big block and i think mid 400 cube for a standard deck ht small block ford or chev.so unless we start being technical inspectors and measuring engine capacity and then sealing said engines it would never be able to be policed. .To the letter of the law in any state a car that complies with andra rules to run the times that some are running in the class isn’t going to be road legal and i say this in regard to seating ,cages ,chutes,intrusion bars,front runners .Simple rules are what this class needs not weight for cubes or maximum cubes .
One of the main reasons I’m still a keyboard racer is because I abandoned building my car when they changed the rules to this class in between rule votes (even though they said they do not do that) and outlawed the car I was building. It was at that point I decided to wait until after the next round of voting before I waste anymore money, which has still cost me a fair bit in storage, (I would have been better off selling the lot). And now I’m no longer in the same financial position I was back then.
I don’t know why you are responding to me with big blocks, I was talking about SB’s in those examples.
Think about what you are proposing! Because no one seems to be thinking. It is an all steel class, the road rules dictate a minimum weight cars need to be, in Qld/NSW this weight is meant to be the factory shipping weight with no fluids but in Qld many of the weights have been pulled out of the air and restrict engine size further. So if we require cars to run rego as we should they already have weight restrictions for their engine size but then if we add minimum weights to the class what are we doing, are we slowing down fast cars? No we are slowing down slow cars by forcing smaller capacity vehicles to run more weight or the same weight as the larger capacity vehicles. The reason this class is so competitive is because under the current rules it has perfect weight breaks built in that create the closest to perfect parity system you can have. Adding simple weight breaks on top of that will only make some combos much better than others instead of the bit better they are now and will make this a class where you must spend money just to stay in it.
But as we know that’s not all, another reason this class works so well is lighter cars can’t fit larger tyres, now you want to make them heavier, are you going to change the rules so they can fit larger tyres?
Simple rules that are not thought out will make the class more expensive, at the moment you can still build a budget car and have fun in this class, you will not be a front runner but you can still win races and have fun. Simple rules that are not thought out will make it harder. At the moment the class is not broke, it doesn’t need fixing. It is the most competitive class, the top ten are all in the 9’s, SB’s are quicker without multiple weight breaks and cheaper cars can come and join in the fun. If you make cars carry more weight than they have to legally you are making them cost more money to keep up or you are slowing down the already slower cars. Will making the BB’s heavier make any of SB’s in the top 10 slower? NO but it will make any factory block BB that could currently compete heavier. Factory block BB’s can only go so big and only handle so much power, make them too heavy and you are forcing them to go to expensive aftermarket parts, do that with “simple” rules and there is nothing stopping a big dollar legal big block car to run deep into the 8’s. Because making the cars a few hundred pounds heavier will not stop any guy with money from running 8’s but it will stop the guy with not a lot of money from running 9’s or even 10’s.
So my question is if the class is not broke why change it? Why risk breaking it?
The problem of adding different weight breaks to legal (engineered/rego which has weight breaks built into it) is it makes the most budget class more expensive. I’ll post some examples.
Small blocks are already on top with one fixed weight break, they have been on top consistently with no weight breaks, that’s because big blocks like small blocks must be engineered and that can only happen in heavier cars, but that’s not always the case. Also keep in mind that NA small blocks can make close to 1000hp also keep in mind the entire top ten is running 9’s and may soon have some in the 8’s.
Currently I can come along with a cheap 10 second big block (which I was hoping to build) and have fun racing heads up and maybe even win a few races. Let’s say I build a 383 big block Mopar, I can legally register this in a 2865 lbs car, if I want to keep it Mopar the lightest car I can legally get it registered in would be an AP6 which is a little heavier but can only fit a 235 tyre (unless the rules change). This car is absolutely street legal and for a modest amount of money with the factory block can run 10’s, maybe even 9’s until you force it to be heavier with weight breaks, then you must spend a lot of money on expensive parts that can make and handle the power. The irony is the lighter smallblock with enough money thrown at it can make more power and go quicker. Not only that but a SBM can be built to a larger capacity than a 383 BB, 500 vs 496 if you have unlimited funds and would receive a lighter weight break.
I could post more examples but you get the point.
So please don’t have two weight breaks, just cap engine capacity at something like 500ci. If you must have separate weights keep them close. The SB’s are all big anyway but there are a few standard stroke BB’s out there and they could potentially be in this class if you don’t force them to carry more weight than they already need to.
The only reason to have separate weight breaks is if you drop the engineered rule.