Home Forums APSA MEMBERS FORUM Technical Section slicks in radial class and other issues ??

This topic contains 13 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Mr. Cve 4 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #2159

    Mr. Cve
    Participant

    I have to ask the committee, or someone, what’s happening with the rules ?
    We now allow ALL cars in radial to run slicks ?
    I remember a while back it was discussed to allow the sports compact guys in, but now V8s and all and a big tyre at that.
    Imagine if someone set the radial record, on a NON Radial slick, how would that sound ?
    And that’s just the start, I am looking through the rules and other things seem to have changed.
    Even then we have so many cars that don’t meet the rules.
    With my recent events, I am looking to the rules to see what I can and can’t do, and things I couldn’t do last year, I seem to be able to do this year ??

    #12690

    pistolpete
    Member

    Paul, the rules that are posted on APSA’s Rules pages with exception to OTF, are exactly what they were well prior to any ownership change. I think you will find when the Outlaw Radial Rules took on weights, etc about 1-1.5 years ago when there was a push to “mirror” the USA Radial rules….(Ducks rules).

    If there are cars that dont meet the rules, please let me know and well address that immediately. If people are cheating then they are at risk of being tribunal’d and not allowed to compete – which raises another point.

    Please note that we will be updating the general rules, to formalise how anyone can make a complaint or a “Protest”. The process will mirror the ANDRA protest procedure although well simplify it a little to ensure anyone with a grievance in competition or if they believe a competitor is not legal or cheating. That way we can act on it in a fair and objective way.

    I can tell you that I have not changed any rules, and have been making sure that everyone follows what the rules are as per on this sites pages for each class. We have already had a few infractions of cars that have been “sliding by” for a while that have been picked up. The rules are not there for us to be selective of what does and what doesn’t apply. If its allowed – it is, if its not then its not.

    Getting back to your original query Paul, no changes have been made by me or as far as I am aware for some time prior to me taking over.

    Pete.

    #12691

    blacktrack
    Member

    whilst we are at it
    General rules for mod street is missing (can remove inner guards if bolt in)
    This needs to be put back in

    I can show it was in general rules before, been a long time rule

    #12692

    Mr. Cve
    Participant

    Thanks for that Pete.
    The protest system is good, but ( in my opinion only ) should be a last resort.

    I think the cars need to be checked more.
    It shouldn’t really be up to the other racers to check their opponent and “dob” on them via protest.
    The governing body should be there to ensure we are all in a fair class.

    Especially if ( for example ) you miss out on racing the final because you were beat in the rounds prior by a car that wasn’t legal.

    I am not saying that has happened to me, but is extremely possible. and can happen at any event.

    Oh I wasn’t accusing you personally of altering the rules, I apologise if it came across that way, 😳

    I know some of the rules may be considered silly or pointless, in that case discuss it( or what you choose ) and get rid of them, so it is simpler to police the important rules.

    P.S I love APSA and want to ensure it grows, as I think it has a positive future.

    Again only my opinion.

    Regards
    Paul

    #12693

    andrew M
    Member

    So with out sounding like a pest and asking a question that has already possibly been answered either here or on the Facebook and me not understanding it, can any car CURRENTLY run a 29×10.5(non W) slick or is it not wrote clearly in the rules and this was intend to give the 28/9 sports compact style cars somewhere to race?

    Are the rules staying as they are for a period of time at the moment or are they going to be re looked at as my car is also being redone at the moment , just if there is going to be major changes I’ll hold out, I don’t have a problem with the rules (less this radial tire drama) but just would be good to know what is planed ahead for the class?
    Thankyou

    #12694

    conrodv111
    Participant

    Totally agree That cars need to be checked a bit more thoroughly.
    Things from raised cam big blocks which are a no go in most classes.
    And rego and matching engine numbers for True street Classes.
    I think you are right, and the playing field should be level for everyone and any misunderstandings on rule interpretations should be cleared up quickly and fairly.

    Cheers

    #12696

    DEBENZ
    Participant

    While we are asking questions, in Outlaw Radial there is no weight for a roots blown small block. Can I assume its the same as a pro-charged small block and single turbo small block @ 2600 pound. There is only one weight for roots blown cars @ 3100 which I assume is for big block?? There is also no weight for a screw blown small block just in case anyone is brave enough to try??

    #12698

    pistolpete
    Member

    @DEBENZ wrote:

    While we are asking questions, in Outlaw Radial there is no weight for a roots blown small block. Can I assume its the same as a pro-charged small block and single turbo small block @ 2600 pound. There is only one weight for roots blown cars @ 3100 which I assume is for big block?? There is also no weight for a screw blown small block just in case anyone is brave enough to try??

    It does appear to be silent on what engine the 3100lbs is meant for, looking at the logic there it is”probably” aimed at BBlocks.

    Is anyone running one that combo???

    Pete

    #12701

    pistolpete
    Member

    @andrew M wrote:

    So with out sounding like a pest and asking a question that has already possibly been answered either here or on the Facebook and me not understanding it, can any car CURRENTLY run a 29×10.5(non W) slick or is it not wrote clearly in the rules and this was intend to give the 28/9 sports compact style cars somewhere to race?

    Are the rules staying as they are for a period of time at the moment or are they going to be re looked at as my car is also being redone at the moment , just if there is going to be major changes I’ll hold out, I don’t have a problem with the rules (less this radial tire drama) but just would be good to know what is planed ahead for the class?
    Thankyou

    Andrew, the way the rules read they are crystal clear that you can run a Slick in any style car that meets all the other rules in OR. I think if the intention was to limit Slicks to 4/6 & rotaries it would be written that way.

    Just to clear it up, as you can see from the post below when these rules were suggested and agreed to – its not Outlaw Radial that was introduced…. Its was Radial Vs the World which allows radial cars to race against Slick cars in an anything goes style:

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2831&p=18209&hilit=Ducks+Rules#p18209

    So all the people that were ‘allegedly consulted and agreed to” as stated in the above thread were:

    Franky dandy engines
    Khan hr
    Steve bessina
    Perry bulivant
    Jamie farmer
    Jay Goodwin
    Jason Barnett
    Darren mood
    Scott’y Hoffman
    Keth vt from cv
    Nathan farrugia
    Drago
    Matt turnbull
    Stu Henry
    Johnny Wilson
    Po tung
    Milan opelic
    Stix man

    Please dont take this as me blaming anyone, just trying to point out how it come about and where from and how long ago (Jan 2014).

    Pete.

    #12703

    bln355
    Member

    I may not be looking hard enough, but that thread is only about matching APSA OLR Weights up with Ducks RvsW weights, not bring over all ducks rules?

    #12704

    DEBENZ
    Participant

    It does appear to be silent on what engine the 3100lbs is meant for, looking at the logic there it is”probably” aimed at BBlocks.

    Is anyone running one that combo???

    Pete

    Not yet, but I have radials to play with. I am currently running a blown small block but have a blown big block too. I am not however about to put weight in my mod street car to run an outlaw class. Not trying to start a weight break fight and I am happy to stay in mod street for the moment just like to keep my options open because my big block is not legal for mod street with a 14-71. Unless that rule is going to change…… 😉 but that’s a whole other debate…….

    #12706

    Mr. Cve
    Participant

    @pistolpete wrote:

    @andrew M wrote:
    So with out sounding like a pest and asking a question that has already possibly been answered either here or on the Facebook and me not understanding it, can any car CURRENTLY run a 29×10.5(non W) slick or is it not wrote clearly in the rules and this was intend to give the 28/9 sports compact style cars somewhere to race?

    Are the rules staying as they are for a period of time at the moment or are they going to be re looked at as my car is also being redone at the moment , just if there is going to be major changes I’ll hold out, I don’t have a problem with the rules (less this radial tire drama) but just would be good to know what is planed ahead for the class?
    Thankyou

    Andrew, the way the rules read they are crystal clear that you can run a Slick in any style car that meets all the other rules in OR. I think if the intention was to limit Slicks to 4/6 & rotaries it would be written that way.

    Just to clear it up, as you can see from the post below when these rules were suggested and agreed to – its not Outlaw Radial that was introduced…. Its was Radial Vs the World which allows radial cars to race against Slick cars in an anything goes style:

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2831&p=18209&hilit=Ducks+Rules#p18209

    So all the people that were ‘allegedly consulted and agreed to” as stated in the above thread were:

    Franky dandy engines
    Khan hr
    Steve bessina
    Perry bulivant
    Jamie farmer
    Jay Goodwin
    Jason Barnett
    Darren mood
    Scott’y Hoffman
    Keth vt from cv
    Nathan farrugia
    Drago
    Matt turnbull
    Stu Henry
    Johnny Wilson
    Po tung
    Milan opelic
    Stix man

    Please dont take this as me blaming anyone, just trying to point out how it come about and where from and how long ago (Jan 2014).

    Pete.

    Keep in mind that is ONLY about the weight breaks for outlaw radial, it has NOTHING to do with the slicks rules.

    #12708

    pistolpete
    Member

    Please dont assume I am for or against any of these rules.

    Im just trying to establish what was already agreed to (Radial vs the Word) and what was already posted up as complete rules.

    As a side issue, the Outlaw Radial rules have completely different weights (much heavier), Engine/turbo combos, and chassis allowances – so if that what you are saying be aware, as it will completely change the class.

    You cant just pick and choose the parts out of a set of rules that suit you, and leave out the parts that make up the entire package and allow it to work. Keep in mind both Outlaw Radial and Outlaw Radial vs the World have gone through quite a bit of ‘finessing’ by our USA counterparts over the last 3-6 years to where they are now to make them fair and both work.

    At the end of the day, they are rules that have been up since start of 2014, However if the majority Outlaw Radial members want to modify them then thats a different discussion.

    Again, I think its a case of people not completely understanding what they agreed to, as an objective outsider looking in.

    Pete

    #12709

    Mr. Cve
    Participant

    @pistolpete wrote:

    Please dont assume I am for or against any of these rules.

    Im just trying to establish what was already agreed to (Radial vs the Word) and what was already posted up as complete rules.

    At the end of the day, they are rules that have been up since start of 2014, However if the majority Outlaw Radial members want to modify them then thats a different discussion.

    Again, I think its a case of people not completely understanding what they agreed to, as an objective outsider looking in.

    Pete

    Pete, that is a very good point. Perhaps at the time, people were not aware of the WHOLE ruling that was agreed to.

    Another good reason to perhaps revise the rules so it is easy for the racers and easy for the officials to police.

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